Whole Body MRI: What Happens After the Scan?

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0:00 We actually have something called a CoreViva score, and that's our age AI generated report card or quantitative information that I find really, really useful for patients. The beauty of MRI is that you're able to get multiple different contrasts. So, these different grades of and different looks of pictures without using any sort of injectable dye in the veins, and you're able to generate very, very, very detailed images of the brain, abdomen, and pelvis, so on and so forth. My one question is, if you could go back and offer yourself advice, what would current day Brian go back and offer to younger Brian as moving forward? Hey there, I'm Terry Coutsolioutsos, founder of RevRx AI.

We remove friction and architect revenue for medtech and consumer health practices. Welcome to the Zero Friction Podcast. This is Terry Coutsolioutsos. I have an exciting new opportunity today for all of us, and we're going to talk about whole body scans. With me today, I have Dr. Brian Tsui. He is a radiologist and a board-certified neuroradiologist by training, and a former faculty member of University of California, San Francisco. He left academic medicine to co-found an opportunity at a company called CoreViva, where he's currently the chief medical officer, and he's here to talk about what CoreViva does, what they're doing to sort of change and transform the way health care is being delivered from a reactive perspective to a proactive perspective. So, Brian, so good to have you here today. Give us a little background about yourself, your training, and then we'll lean into CoreViva um in a little bit.

Perfect. Well, thanks for having me, Terry. So, I'm a board-certified radiologist with specialized additional training in neuroradiology. So, the path for this is 4 years undergrad, 4 years medical school, then 6 years additional training for the radiology, and then the neuroradiology, and then stayed on briefly as faculty at UCSF. Soon afterwards, I was approached by people I knew to found a exciting opportunity at CoreViva, where we could change how people live their lives. One of the things that is near and dear to my heart is screening and proactive medicine. And currently, we have good screening options for breast cancer, colon cancer, cervical cancer. Prostate cancer has a blood test that's if some people use, but there's so many different other cancers out there that aren't really being caught readily, and oftentimes caught at a late presentation.

2:49 In addition, there's so many other diseases that are not cancer that, if screened properly or caught early, could really change the outcome of people's lives, such as aneurysms. And so, when brought this opportunity, I immediately saw the potential in doing whole body MRIs to screen for so many of these conditions and improve people's lives. That's awesome. So, we're talking about whole body scans, right? Pretty much for the most part? Yeah. And I think before we go deeper into the MRI MRI piece, I think we should just distinguish that there's a lot of other scanning technologies out there. There are other companies that have been using, you know, scanning like CTs. And what is the big differentiation between, you know, me getting a whole body MRI versus me getting a whole body CT?

Yeah, that's a great question. So, radiology, we have so many different ways of imaging the body. And so, you have X-ray, you have ultrasound, you have CT, you have MRI. And you really have to choose the right tool for the right task. Okay. So, starting with CT. So, CT uses radiation to create images of whichever part of the body that you're interested in. In the In the setting of whole body CT, you're scanning from head to toe and exposing yourself to a large large dose of radiation. In fact, there's a recent journal article that came out talking about how over overutilization of CT may account for maybe 5% of cancers that are being diagnosed in the US. And so, while I don't want this to dissuade anybody from getting a CT that they absolutely need, I think getting whole body CTs yearly for screening is very counterproductive if you're trying to catch cancer early.

Right. In addition, CT really just has lower contrast and ability to distinguish between certain important structures in the human body. For example, the brain is often times very difficult to determine and distinguish between different parts of the areas of brain. So, let alone trying to catch subtle abnormalities in the brain is quite quite difficult with CT. And the same thing in the abdomen and pelvis. Ultrasound is something that is portable, easily used. It actually uses sound waves. If you've never seen an ultrasound, you get a little probe, you put it on your skin, and you the probe actually puts sound waves in, and then the sound waves bounce back, kind of like a bat almost, to determine its where they're going. And we use those sound waves to generate images.

5:25 Now, the issue with ultrasound is that it's great when things are just close to your skin. But if you're trying to look deeper, it it's very difficult because the sound attenuates or decreases as you go deeper into the human body. So, particularly for larger people or if there's something that's blocking it, it Ultrasound's not the best modality. and oftentimes when you're looking for whole body screening, you're looking for things that you can't see in front of you. If there's a lump on your skin, you feel it. You don't need an ultrasound to tell you, I have a lump on my that I'm feeling under my rib.

That's something that you can just touch and feel. What you're looking for is is there a lump in my colon? Is there a something weird going on in my brain? Is there something deeper inside? An ultrasound oftentimes can have a difficulty in distinguishing that particularly in the very deep organs like the pancreas. Just oftentimes just very, very hard to see with ultrasound. So really enter MRI. MRI has no radiation. You use radio waves and then you use magnets to generate images and the beauty of MRI is that you're able to get multiple different contrast. So these different grades of and different looks of pictures without using any sort of injectable dye in the veins and you're able to generate very, very, very detailed images of the brain, abdomen, pelvis, joints and really is the workhorse for evaluation of what we call soft organs such as the brain, the liver, the pancreas, the joints such as the meniscus and the ligaments. You have no shot in seeing any of that with any

Other modality other than MRI. And so that's why given the safety aspect of MRI with no radiation and the fact that you're able to get such detailed imaging with MRI, MRI is the best modality for whole body MRI screening or whole body screening or not. You really should not be entertaining any any other modality in my opinion. Well, it makes total sense, right? It's safer. Um you get the soft tissue that you need to to figure out, right? And I'm I'm guessing that it comes in more than just a flat dimension as well where you can um get multiple different angles and cuts on what you need to see, right?

Absolutely. And so, we we have a prescribed way of obtaining these images. Particularly for the brain, one of the things that we're most proud of is that we're getting very thin cuts of the brain. So much so that we're able to reconstruct it in any different angle. These are 1 mm cuts and you were able to reconstruct it in back and forth angle, side to side angle, top down angle. And so, you're getting multiple different views of what the brain looks like. And so, that ensures us that we're getting a correct diagnosis, that we're not missing anything, and that we can be more accurate in what we tell our patients here at CoreViva.

8:26 That's pretty cool. Um well, tell us a little bit about um CoreViva itself. Like who what do you What does the team look like and you know, what Who are the main Are you going direct to the consumer with your services? Do you work through referral networks? How does What is the business model behind CoreViva? And you know, how are you helping to change health care in that with that mission? So, CoreViva, we're physician-founded, physician-led organization. So, from top down the leadership is all physicians and our backing is all from physicians as well. And so, one of the really cool things here at CoreViva is that we're not necessarily bound with um any other sort of institutional money, which gives us a little bit of latitude on how we want to deliver health care at CoreViva. So, one thing that we're really proud about is that we really want to treat every patient like we would treat our loved ones. And so, we are directed consumer.

Part of our business model is directed consumer, but it's also to referring physicians and we're we're very successful with going to referring physicians and other health professionals because of the service, the timeliness, and the accuracy of our reports. That's a lot of a lot of the things that people have told us that they're very very very happy with. So, what a journey at CoreViva really looks like from a patient standpoint is you come to our website, you sign up. Afterwards, you fill out some easy forms just to make sure that everything is going to be okay when you go through the MRI, that you don't have some extra metal that the magnet might interfere with. Once you arrive, it's a very very very elegant clinic.

Um it's not your typical imaging center. There's really no waiting room because we want to whisk patients back off as soon as possible to the MRI suite. You're not waiting there for 10, 15, 20 minutes to get your name called at like a typical doctor's office. Our MRI is very comfortable. A lot of people have told us that it's one of the quietest MRIs that they've ever had in their entire life. We even have a monitor at the back where you can watch some movies or TV shows to entertain yourself or even listen to music if that's more your jam. And our scan usually takes around 45 to 50 minutes, so it's pretty quick. And we're able to scan everything from your head to your ankles. And I think the key thing that really makes CoreViva different is that after you finish your scan, you have the opportunity to come back and talk to one of the radiologists, myself or the other radiologist Dr. Alexander, to go over your imaging findings immediately.

11:17 We understand that you get a whole body MRI scan can often times have a lot of anxiety behind it. You will kind of want to get your results as soon as possible. I kind of liken it to when you're taking a test, you want your test results as soon as possible. And so this is very similar. You finish the MRI exam, you take a little 5-10 minute break, you go back to physician's office, we spend around half an hour, and we go ahead and go over everything, going over your scan, and make sure that hey, this is what's going on in your body, everything looks good, these are things that you can continue to work on, whether it's your joints, your back, uh fatty liver disease, other type of metabolic disease. In rare occasions where there's something serious, we make sure that you understand what that is, we make sure that you have the correct follow-up appointment, or that we contact the right people that you we need to contact

And make sure you have good continuity of care, so that is worked up. And so, these are things that we really care about. We want to make sure that patients really understand everything is going on with their body, and not just get some sort of generic radiology report, which is sometimes can be very confusing, because these are written for medical professionals, not necessarily for laypeople. Correct. Which kind of comes into this report card concept, right? Which I think is, you know, for those listeners out there, you know, the website is phenomenal. So, I I think that's something that is really good, and it kind of demonstrates what that looks like a little bit, but tell us a little bit about like you come in, you you you do the intake, you then have your your your images taken, and then now what? So, what happens after that?

So, there's two parts. So, you get the consultation immediately. So, I'm you sit in the physician room, we have a big TV, it's kind of like watching a movie, except the movie is of your Right. of your body, and I think that's that's so cool. I think a lot of people really enjoy this experience. And so, we're scrolling through the images in real time, we're saying like, "Hey, you know, everything here in your brain looks good." Or hey, you know, there's been an old stroke, did you know that you had the stroke, cuz you didn't put this in your intake form? Oh, you didn't know.

Okay, let's really go over about what stroke risk factors you might have and why you may have had this stroke in the past. We go through your your heart, you know, is the heart size looking good? If it's not, well, hey, this is maybe something that needs to be further evaluated with a cardiologist or a heart doctor. Is there fatty liver disease? If there is, what might be causing that? Is that from alcohol? I noticed that you listed that you drink three drinks a day. You know, that's something maybe we should talk about. Or is it from diet? You know, is that something that hey, I know my diet's not really good, but I don't know what it's doing to my body. Well, we can tell you exactly what it's doing to your body. Your liver is under attack, under inflammation due to what your diet is and we're going through these point by point and you can get a list of results right then and there, right after your scan. Now, you get the That's not the

14:22 The only thing you get. You get a report, written report afterwards cuz we want to make sure that everything's on paper as well and that you can reference that after weeks after afterwards when you're trying to figure out, oh, wait, what what did that doctor say again? Well, you have it on the paper. And so, we usually release that around 2 days afterwards. We actually have something called the CoreViva score and that's our age AI generated report card or quantitative information that I find really, really useful for patients.

And part of that is we're using AI to figure out what your brain age is compared to age match controls. So, you get a understanding of how your brain compares to you know, other 50-year-olds if you're 50, what your joints, how those compare to other 50-year-olds. And then, you also get a quantitative score of what your visceral fat is. And your visceral fat is that hidden fat surrounding all your organs. And it's a very dangerous type of fat where that promotes inflammation, it's linked to heart disease, linked to dementia.

There's increased risk of cancers with high visceral fat as well. And so these are things that you can track over time to figure out, hey, am I doing better or am I not doing better? And am I improving or not improving? And then lastly, we also segment some muscles to determine the muscle quality of that because we at CoreViva really believe that mobility is longevity. One of the toughest things when you age is that the muscle bulk really doesn't get as good. You get replacement of muscle with fat and it just gets harder to move around, harder to get up. And when that occurs, that's really, really, really difficult.

You There's a lot of host of health problems when that comes with that. And so by measuring that, we're able to de- termine, do you have muscle wasting earlier and can prescribe exercise regimens to work against that? And so that's something that this CoreViva score is very very important for patients in addition to the normal findings that you might get in a radiology report. That's great. And you know, especially with AI today and putting together very complex channels of data, numbers, photos, and helping people make sense of all that, I'm sure is a big part of the service that you provide too. It's not just getting the scan, but understanding the scan, too.

Absolutely. I I I think I talked to a couple doctors last week and when I told them, "Hey, your patients actually sit down with the radiologist, which is the imaging specialist in in the physician world, where we are really people who have spent years honing our craft in interpreting images." They were shocked. There's no other place where you have that ability to sit down with somebody who has studied imaging day in and day out for so many years of training and can tell you exactly why this is abnormal. But it's abnormal but it's just a normal variant. Or just hey, this is very abnormal. This is very suspicious and these are reasons why this looks suspicious based on years of training, years of experience, and getting a very nuanced explanation of how we decide this is okay and this is not okay. Um and that's you know, other doctors, you know, they have the experience in say their own field such as a liver surgeon might

17:49 Understand how to read what is going on with the liver, but these are all separate parts. They really know the liver very well, but if you were to ask them something about their stomach or ask something about the colon, you know, that's not something that they would be as familiar with. And so the key really thing when these when these whole body MRIs you're sitting with that imaging expert who knows everything from head to toe. You don't need to worry about like oh, you know, this is I'm not that familiar with the brain or I'm not that familiar with the heart or I'm not that familiar with the colon.

There's nothing here at that There's nothing like that CoreViva. We're experienced in everything from head to your ankles and we're able to tell you definitively why say your knee hurts. Well, this is why your knee hurts. There's some cartilage loss here or your ACL is torn. Um and we're very all familiar with that and you're able to sit down with that radio one one of one of the radiologists to really go over that and understand everything thoroughly. So I have a a question just on like, you know, brain health is a big topic in America today. What's CoreViva's sort of, you know, angle on how to support brain health in in a world that's, you know, um suffering from it?

That's a great question, Terry. So part of evaluation of the brain health is there's often times two There's two parts of the evaluation. So there's the imaging evaluation which we really excel at. And then there's also the clinical evaluation. Like do you actually have some sort of memory impairment or memory issues? A lot of the patients coming to CoreViva, they're coming to be proactive. They're worried that, "Hey, am I going to develop Alzheimer's or neurodegenerative process?" And these are patients in their 40s and 50s trying to figure out how they can avoid it.

Like maybe their aunt recently was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and they're trying to figure out, "Well, what can I do to reduce my chances of that?" And so what we can really see on the imaging is is there early volume loss? And that's what the CoreViva score really helps with. Is your your 40? Is your brain truly 40 or is it 38 or is it 45 or 50? And these are things that are can be really important. And then different special different parts of the brain as well. And a lot of people are concentrated on certain parts of the brain such as the hippocampus for good reason. The hippocampus plays a incredible important role in memory. How does the hippocampus look like? Is that too small, too big? Is there some sort of malformation with it? And these are all things that we can detect on the CoreViva scan. And then there's other metabolic issues that we can see with on in the in the brain. For example, one

20:27 Very common process that we see is microvascular disease in the brain. And microvascular disease is highly associated with increased risk of stroke and then also increased risk of memory issues. And so we are able to see that early, tell patients, "Hey, this is really your window while it's mild to make changes to prevent this from progressing because right now it's minimal to mild. You get it to moderate to severe, that's that's a very different ballgame that we're talking about here. And these things are incredibly preventable where if you are able to get good control of your blood pressure, good control of your blood sugars, have a better diet, do the right amount of exercise and right types of exercise, that can really help promote blood flow to your brain and help with preventing more of these lesions and scars that are from microvascular change and microvascular disease from occurring. And once these scars form, they're forever. It's you can't really get rid of them and so the

Really the golden opportunity is really in your 40s and 50s from doing the right things then so that you can really set yourself up in your 60s and 70s because these processes take years to before they do that long-lasting damage in your brain. And then finally, uh we're as I mentioned, we're talking about old strokes, old traumatic brain injuries, all these other things and so we're able to identify them and then also counsel patients, hey, like this is where these These are the areas where your brain are affected. These are things that we really ought to optimize given your history and what we see on imaging and give them concrete tips such as obviously you the normal risk factors such as high blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugars, you know, we want to make sure that those are all optimized through diet. Exercise plays a humongous role in brain brain health that I think is underestimated. Um we There's studies out there that show that you can keep your own brain age as long as you get around 3 hours of moderate

Intensity exercise per week. And so that's something that we highly promote here at CoreViva especially somebody's coming to us for wanting to talk about their brain health. And then staying social and making sure that you're keep using your brain, you're trying to learn new things, um you're hanging out with friends. These are all very important things to to do. Um part of the brain is use it or lose it. And so, the more that you can use it, try to exercise it, work on it, you're definitely that that can be helpful for your brain health as well. And all this is preventative, too. This is like, you know, your primary customers coming in from a functional, preventative, proactive perspective, right? That's probably what percentage of your your clients are on the proactive side versus the referral in or the reactive, I've got a problem side of things.

23:30 I would say all comers for for proactive or it's probably around 80% and a lot of people are coming in because they're they ask about their brain health as as you said, they're they're more like, "Hey, how can I how can I stay sharp in 20 or 30 years?" And a minority is really coming in for like, "Hey, I have headaches, I have this other symptom, I have this other issue, you know, I want to check this out because I'm seriously worried about this symptom." And so, the the vast majority of our patients are preventative.

And when when you look at that perspective, like I'm guessing HSAs and the FSAs are probably really a big part of are they eligible to pay through a some sort of payment program like that, as well? Absolutely. So, part of CoreViva is that we're outside the insurance Right. realm and so, we're entirely cash pay here at CoreViva which lets us do these extra things that you normally would never ever get at a place that took insurance because uh talking to patients and doing all these things just I think it's incredibly important, but unfortunately for whatever reason, America has decided that it's you should either offer it as free or you just not going to get reimbursed for it.

Uh which is really wrong and I think detrimental for patients. And so, while it's cash pay, it is eligible for HSA, FSA reimbursement. We're happy to issue receipts, whatever is necessary in order to get patients reimbursed from whatever account that they need to get it reimbursed from. Pretty cool and and especially with, you know, I would imagine in today's marketplace with health care insurance the way it works in most parts of the country, not all but most, is it most of our population is running around with a high premium but also a high deductible component. So, even if you were prescribed an MRI or some sort of imaging service, most most people are going to go in and pay you know, a chunk of that out of their pocket just because they haven't met their deductible yet. And so, this is a great way to you know, if you're faced with that, this is another option, correct? Instead of going through insurance, you can go here. And I'm guessing that probably

Equivalent market segment price points. But the other side of this, which I think is really interesting, if you go and get these scans, you know, annually, semi-annually, whatever they might be, is that you're recording transitions of your body over time. And so, if something's changing, you're going to have a pretty good idea of what's changed and how it's changed, right? Absolutely. And that's part of the thing. You come here at CoreViva, you get your first scan, that's a baseline. And usually that's that's really helpful for us here at CoreViva because a lot of things that change in our human body, whether it's to determine whether something is okay or not okay, often times time is really your best answer. I always give this example for brain health cuz this is something that people really worry about. So, anything between the 55th percentile and 95th percentile is considered normal. But trust me, nobody wants to tell that they have a 10th percentile brain. It's it can sometimes be considered a little insulting. But what I tell patients is

26:49 That we all have different starting places. This may be something how you were just born with and the 10th percentile brain doesn't mean that your IQ is bad or that you're not going to be successful or that you're not successful. In fact, it might be the opposite. I don't think know if there's really a correlation between, you know, 10th percentile and 80th percentile on how successful or how smart someone is. But what I can tell you is that if you're 10th percentile consistently over a span of 5 or 10 years, you know, that's almost certainly going to be normal and that's just who you are and you know, we just like how some people are taller than others and some people are shorter than others. That's just, you know, doesn't make anybody better or worse in life.

But if somebody is at the 80th percentile and they're slight dropping the next year to the 70th percentile and then the 60th percentile and the 50th percentile, well, that's really concerning. I mean, you should not really be dropping like that and like dropping down across the curve and that would be someone that I would be really watching. Hey, you know, are you like maybe we should go and see somebody see somebody at a memory clinic. Let's, you know, see what we can do for early intervention because while that number in a vacuum 50th percentile is normal, well, we already have that baseline knowing that you started at a different starting point and it's already dropped drastically. That's something that would be very, very, very suspicious that there might be a neurodegenerative process going on. And so these baselines and trends and quantitative analysis is so, so helpful for figuring out some of these diseases that I know a lot of Americans are worried about.

Well, let's let's turn it into your, you know, we're going to come to a little short um here then you're on the to 1-year anniversary, Right? you guys have done almost like I would say an incredible you've done 2,000 scans since CoreViva started. That's amazing. So tell us like what's behind all this early success in CoreViva and you know, what you're doing today, and what are your plans for moving forward in the future? You know, um you know, it's it's been so exciting to have been part of this entire journey from scanning our first patient essentially 1 year ago, and you know, today still standing strong and even building even stronger. Part of it I I really think is that uh we we really care, and that's something that really comes through. I think what patients what they tell us is that we really want the best for our patients.

29:19 Sometimes, you know, patients call in and they ask like, "Hey, should I get this? You know, I I I have this problem. Should I get an Should I get an MRI with you guys?" If we really don't think it's the right fit, we're going to say like, "There's maybe a better test out there that might solve your might better answer your question." As much as we'd love to earn your business, we're physicians first. We want to save lives correctly. We want to do things correctly. And if that's not the right thing to do, we're I'd rather not earn your money than to do the wrong thing.

And the second thing is really the the the service. I think the top-down our organization, we're small organization with our single clinic here in Orange County in Newport Beach in California, but everyone here top-down really cares about the mission. We want to save lives. Our top line mission goal is to save 10,000 lives, and it's not it's it's that's what we truly believe in. We want to make sure that people live healthier. We catch things that could change the trajectory of your life. And after that, I think the success will follow after that, and I think that's totally true. If you provide great care, you provide great service to both physicians, health professionals, and to also patients, you're going to get what you the rest of the success will follow essentially, And I think that's totally proven true where day by day we're getting busier, much, much busier, and you know, feeling that there's growing momentum here in Southern California. That's excellent, and you definitely are move removing that whole friction point

Um with the patient experience. So, no longer do you need to go get six referrals to go get an image done. You know, you can call up CoreViva um request a time on the website, get scheduled, and you're not weaving in and out of five doctors writing a referral for you to go get an an MRI done, number one. So, kudos for you to kind of offer this service. Are you planning any other expansion into other imaging modalities, or are you going to stay strict straight in the MRI lane?

So, part of our organization, we're very flexible. I mean, we're we're absolutely hungry to grow. We want to expand. I mean, part of CoreViva's mission is to be across the entire nation. Um and whether it's, you know, we want to part of it is also listening to our customers, listening to patients, listening to physicians. Hey, what do you think is help most helpful for you? And if we find out that another imaging modality or offering other imaging services makes sense, we that's something we strongly consider. I think it would be foolish not to listen to our strongest supporters on what they want.

32:09 Um but, we've started with whole body MRI. That's definitely one of our core businesses, and that's something that we it will always be the flagship here at CoreViva. That's something that we know that is a very powerful tool, and is one of the best tools for uh proactive health care and preventative health care. That's awesome. So, Brian, I have one more question for you, and it's a bit of a curveball. Okay. So, I'm going to ask it slowly, and I'll let you kind of think about it a little bit, but it's going to kind of revolve around, you know, current day Brian going back to, you know, Brian maybe when Brian was 18 or 22. And so, my one question is, if you could go back and offer yourself advice, one piece of advice, whether it be professional, or whether it be personal, or whether it be financial, any type of sort of life advice, what would current day Brian go back and offer to younger Brian as

Moving forward after your your journey and what you learned so far. I would say uh older Brian would probably tell younger Brian to basically step out of the comfort zone a little bit more. Maybe talk to people more, ask ask for more things. I think one thing realized is that while a lot I think there is always a worry of like rejection or like it's awkward or something like that. Reality is that most people in life are very nice. They want to help people and as long as you're able to ask, ask for introduction, even if it's a cold call, cold email, a lot of times that eventually you'll get through and they you go into the office and you talk to the physician. They're like, "Oh, you know, thanks so much for coming. Thanks for, you know, even reaching out." Um and very rarely is it like a very awkward experience where they're like, "Why did you even come? Why like what are you doing here? This is so weird." And you know, you come out of the

Interaction feeling like, "Wow, like I really wish I didn't do any of that." I think that's really far and few in between and I would say I'd tell younger Brian like reality of the situation is that um you know, if you you're willing to kind of put yourself out there and uh be a little bit more bold, you you can get a lot more than get a lot of meet a lot more cool and new people, get a lot more new connections, maybe get a lot of things that you thought were possibly impossible done and you potentially, you know, all without feeling awkward or feeling like you have have hit on your self-esteem because you got rejected or something like that.

34:43 You know, what great advice that is. I totally agree with you. Put yourself out there, you know, take a little risk, right? And um the fear of the unknown is always greater than the reality of the outcome. Totally true. Totally true. You know, there's so many things in my life I agree with you like, you know, that I've let fear hold me back and you know, uh pushing yourself out there in front and experiencing those things it's it's the outcomes are always positive. Even if even if they're if it's not successful outcome, there's always a way to learn from those outcomes and move forward, too. So.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more, Terry. I definitely appreciate you being here. What a great concept. CoreViva, everybody. Um Dr. Brian Tsui, he's the radiologist and co-founder of this organization. They are transforming the way preventive health care can be delivered through MRI. Thank you. Thanks for having me. So let's connect. Let's find where your revenue's getting stuck. Book a call at RevRx AI and build your revenue engine.