Why One Thermography Image Leaves Practices With Questions

From the episode captions, lightly cleaned. Speakers are not labeled, and the text may contain small errors. Time links play the episode from that moment.

0:00 Your first imaging, your first study Is not your most important. It's the Comparison studies over time that if I Could shout anything from the rooftops, It would be, get the second thermogram. And, you know, the idea that medical Thermography equals like breast cancer Screening did not come from science. It came from marketing.

Thermography can certainly document Thermal variation around a wound. That's easy. Right. So, it's just about, Not so much its clinical value, But its visibility to them and then Just training them. You know, the Technology is ready, the workflow's ready, What's missing is awareness. This makes It so much different than other tests. So we're not diagnosing a disease, we're Showing behavior, we're showing change, We're showing response. Revenue doesn't Stall because your team stopped trying. It stalls because of friction. I sit down with other commercial leaders Who find that friction and fix it.

I'm Terry Coutsolioutsos Let's get Into it. Welcome to Zero Friction, This is Terry Coutsolioutsos. We have such a unique opportunity today With our guest, Kristin Burton, is the Owner and CEO of Med-Hot Infrared Imaging. She's a 15-year practitioner in This space and now the new owner of One of the most established medical Thermography companies in the country. The reason why I think this is so Interesting today is that healthcare is Changing and I believe that medical Thermography is another pathway to sort Of eliminate some of the friction that Exists in today's healthcare system.

Know, Kristin, why don't you give us a Little background on yourself personally, And then we'll kind of lean into the Company a little bit and kind of talk About, you know, Med-Hot and what they do, How they do it, and who they do it for. But talk to me a little bit about like Your background and why this space was So interesting to you. Well, thank you. And I'm pleased to be here. Thank you So much for the invitation, Terry. Yes, I grew up in a family back in the 60S and 70s and my mother was like a Champion for natural health long before It was something that was mainstream.

We would go places and visit with her Friends and things and they would say, you Don't need to take those vitamins, right? You can get everything from your food. I just looked up to her so much Because she would stand up, She was five feet tall, But to me, She was six feet tall because she would Just stand up and she would proudly say, Know, no, you need to ask your doctor More questions. You need to look For root cause of what's going on. You need to support your nutrition.

2:57 And basically what she was telling People was take ownership of Your health. Well, that was huge. To grow up with a mother back then who Questioned the status quo and kind Of tried to shape it a little bit. So that's how I lead Med-Hot today, You know, that curiosity, That early adaption, adapting, And realizing that, you know, Back then, they thought my mom was Radical and rebellious. But really, I think she was being very responsible.

Asking why, asking what else is Possible, that's why natural Health appealed to me so much. So, I have a mindset of leading people that, Know, and clients and helping them Understand their customers, you know, You deserve to understand your body and That physiology of the body matters. And that medical thermography Helps you evaluate the physiology. What's going on right now? What is your body responding to? What is it adapting to? What is it prioritizing right now?

And you brought up a really key point That your mother was into this sort Of proactive healthcare movement way Before it's time and now it's become Really cool but until they probably Spent seven or eight or nine thousand Dollars of deductible they are paying For their healthcare all along the way And so this is where this proactive Healthcare movement I think really is Becoming much more a high feature In people's lives because they now For the first time in a long time are Feeling the pain of not having health.

And so they'd rather be proactive about Health care or look at alternative ways Of either getting therapy or getting Diagnosed or getting an image of some Sort versus the old traditional way. Know, and people used to say to me, Don't want to go through what my grandpa Went through. I watched him, you know, Waste away or I, and he smoked for 45 Years or I watched grandma have A serious debilitating disease and I Just don't want that to happen to me. What can I do now? How can I prevent that?

I just don't wanna cross my Fingers and try to eat right. Which leads right into like, And then how does Med-Hot today Kind of fit into this sort of more Proactive mindset of screening and Maybe finding things out about your body Your health before you are reactive, And in a more economical, cost-effective, Time-effective way of doing it.

5:53 Yes. Well, medical thermography, Although not covered by insurance At this point, is very reasonable. There's really, when you think About that $9,000 deductible, We're looking at a $200 breast study, A $500 full-body study from head to Toe that gives you so much information, You know, and it's giving you Information about physiology. And so what I mean by that is, You know, how the body is working, Not so much what it has become, but what I Was saying earlier, how it's prioritizing.

Mainstream medicine is more built around Like diagnosing structural change, Like here's a mass, here's a lesion, Here's a lab value. And these tools Are certainly essential, true. But they're kind of snapshots in time Where medical thermography lives in A different lane there. It documents Thermal variation, which is so important. You don't even know it's important, But it is. Patterns, intensity, How those patterns behave over time, That's what physiology is. It's the body communicating to us How it's responding and adapting and Working harder and prioritizing to what We're doing to it, how we're eating, How we're exercising or not.

How we're supplementing. So, The real power is not just in one image, But it's in that monitoring over time. And that's what thermography does. Your first imaging, your first study Is not your most important. It's the Comparison studies over time that if I Could shout anything from the rooftops, It would be, get the second thermogram. Because that- Or or the fourth Or whatever is happening, right? Well, and the typical, somebody Might be wondering, watching this, Well, what is the typical schedule? Well you come in and you get your study.

Now that could be something like a Full body, which is great, but we also Have more economical studies too. One's called the men's and women's Health study, know, things That are a little bit less expensive, But cover the really key areas. And then you come back in three Months to see if any of the patterns That were identified are evolving, Resolving, or staying the same. At that point, you have some really Good data to take to your doctor, And this report that you get has Been done by a medical doctor.

8:24 This is not just a thermographer going, Well, I think it's this or look at that. You're getting something that's very, Very valuable, and at Med-Hot, The interpretation service that we Recommend is FDA compliant to the letter. So, our thermographers are protected And their clients are also protected Against getting kind of scammed Into thinking they've got some Kind of diagnosis or something, Which is not what we're all about. And then they take that report to Their primary care physician or their Trusted care team. And what we call This as a rule is health discovery, Because it's kind of a process over time.

It's a journey. and it never ends Because you're always with your trusted Health care practitioners monitoring And tweaking instead of waiting For something big to land on you. Let me do a little bit of a reverse Because I think there's a topic I want to make sure we cover And it's revolving around Dr. Carol Chandler who really is well Known and renowned as probably the The mother of thermography, correct? Yep. And so tell me about you know Her relationship with you and you know What this means like and what that Means to Med-Hot too as well. Sure.

Well back in 2004 when I was first Investigating natural health care In my new town Lakeland Florida, Oh my gosh there's a place called The Natural Medicine Center. Oh my goodness I've got to go there. That's me. That's how I was raised And I met Dr. Carol Chandler there. And she was already doing thermography. As a matter of fact, she had Already worked for another Company and said, no, no, no, no, That's not how we're going to do this. That's not how we're going to roll medical Thermography out into the big world.

There's going to be a process here. She's very much a process person. And I just loved her from that moment on. Well, a couple years later, She offered me a job because I was A wellness coach in town working at A spa and I used to have her come in During October and we changed breast Cancer awareness month to breast Health awareness and she'd come and Do some great presentations for me. She finally offered me that job And I never looked back and I Continue to talk to her every day.

11:00 Sometimes two or three times a day, Just talk to her this morning. And there was a time where I worked For her and then there was a time Where she said, I think I'm ready. It's time for me to sell Med-Hot. And I can't imagine anybody else but You taking the range. Because I had Always just, I was her student. Mean, I would lean up against the door Of her office thinking I was going to Say good morning. And an hour later, I was still leaning up against that Door learning something from her, Just from casual conversation.

And we've been having those Conversations for over 15 years. So she didn't just give me a company, She entrusted me with her legacy, Something she built over decades With her own hands, her own standards, Her own heart. And I really felt The weight of that, that she was, She was passing on to me, you know, Her reputation. It's on her shoulders That I stand and the entire community Of thermographers worldwide. Not all Of them are Med-Hot thermographers. Many thermographers from outside the Med-Hot world come to her for advice.

So, it wasn't just a business Transaction that I made with Dr. Carol. It was, you know, taking on, I always say, stewardship of the company. I had a responsibility, and I still do, And also to take Med-Hot into the next Level, because we deserve to go there. You know, that's so exciting. You know, a couple things that I Find I can get a lot of around is You the friction and you just talked About breast health number one and I This is a great area where infrared Or Med-Hot thermography can actually Begin to sort of become a standard of Care in certain areas and I think this Is an area where you feel like that's A nice space for you to kind of go Find and and expand upon and go out.

So talk to me a bit about Breast health, breast screening, And how thermography plays like a Legitimate role in that disease state. Sure. So, according to the FDA, We cannot call it screening, We call them studies, right? We cannot compare ourselves to Mammography or we can say that We are an FDA cleared adjunct. Okay. So, and the FDA is happy As long as we stay in our lane. And, you know, the idea that medical Thermography equals like breast cancer Screening did not come from science. It came from marketing. Years ago, Before even Dr. Carol started, A handful of companies promoted Thermography as a standalone breast Cancer screening and diagnostic tool.

14:01 And if you look out there at some of The websites today, you'll still see Those words and it's just, oh, you know, We just see it and go, no, No, no, No, because this is not FDA cleared And it's not supported by evidence, But that messaging stuck and unfortunately It boxed thermography into a corner That was never meant to occupy. So when it comes to breast thermography, This is all about breast health Documenting these physiological Changes over time. So, we look At thermal patterns on the breasts, Actually anywhere else on the body, Because we're full-body thermographers.

The breasts are just part of that, And we're monitoring how those Patterns change over time. Again, That monitoring. Not the first one. The first one kind of we get a look And kind of map you out, right? Then the second one, we're saying, Okay, have any of the changes That we've evaluated here? Have they evolved? Have they resolved? Are they staying the same? So documenting Those patterns, that's not diagnosis. That's a physiological imaging tool With far, far-reaching applications, Much broader applications. And so the more we correct that Misunderstanding, the more our field Can grow the way it was meant to, To help women keep their breasts healthy, To show them where they might be Going a little bit out of balance.

And so, there are doctors out there, The functional and the medical integrative Doctors, acupuncture physicians, Chiropractors, who care very much About the root health of the breast. Not just, got another kind of imaging And it said everything was fine. But how does the terrain look? If you're going to grow a garden, Do we have rocks in the garden? How does the soil look? Does it need Some more raking or fertilizer? How do we make this garden healthy so That what grows there is healthy and Nourishing? We're looking at the garden.

We're looking at, we have terrain There that promotes health? And so being boxed into the breast cancer Diagnosis is such a tiny little place. We don't want to be there. We want to be In the physiologic health of the body. What's it prioritizing and why? And let's get to the bottom of that. And that's why functional and integrative Doctors love us. Got it. Let's talk About sensitivity and specificity too. Think that's another topic that, Especially when you're talking about, And I know we don't have a diagnostic Tool or anything, but those are things That sort of separate those things Out and talk to me like how that Would segment from a thermography Perspective, how it actually works.

17:16 And what you said before, what it claims To do and what it doesn't claim to do. So it doesn't claim to be diagnostic At all. Right. But how about Just in the most simplest terms, You can say, hey, you just might Want to investigate this area.

This is an area that we have seen Intensity pattern. We're watching how This pattern is behaving over time. And we see how it's responding and Adapting, and this is what we do When we image them, the first time, The second time, the third time, And we just get so much better every Time they come to us because now We're comparing it back over time, So, because we're documenting This thermal variation and the Real power isn't in one image, It's in the monitoring, this makes it So much different than other tests.

So, we're not diagnosing a disease. We're showing behavior. We're showing Change. We're showing response. This should be so important to people. And I think that the integrative And the functional doctors are like, Yes, yes, I know what you're saying. The average person is like, what? I go to my doctor and they do some labs And then they tell me what pill to take And what? Documenting patterns and Intensity over time? Let us show you. Come get a thermography, a thermogram, And let us show you what that means.

I think you're going to like it. I think you're going to like what you see. If you're working on some kind of health Issue, we can show you how thermally You're changing in response to that and Whether that's going in a good direction. Like we said, if the pattern is evolving, Resolving or staying the same. Ultimately, we want resolving if It's a pattern that our doctors Feel is out of thermal boundaries. So I'm going to throw a new topic in The air at you just real quick as I'm Listening to you sort of describe, You know, screening and not screening, But, you know, having series of Images over time. And then you all Of a you have also all these other Thermography centers throughout the Country that are taking images as well.

19:51 How does AI play a role in Aggregating the thermography itself And images all over the place, As well as when you start looking at Image from year 1 to year 3 to year 5 To year 7, are there ways where AI Can start looking at this information And start maybe being a little more Proactive around things to look out for Around your health? So, right now, AI used for medical thermography Interpretation is outside of compliance. However, it's early in the AI game, And we think there may be some Areas where we can, in the future, Not now, but in the future, use AI.

I mean, we're open to it. We're early Adapters, right? We're open to it. And, but we have to work carefully. There have been other companies that Have come out that said, we're using AI. And then they quickly went, whoops, Because they realized they couldn't Get a 510K clearance and they would Literally get a warning letter if They were claiming that. Well, I'm not Even talking about claiming things. I am actually talking about doing Things the right way because I did Spend a few years in the imaging space.

And when it comes to radiography and X-ray and there are ways to start looking At aggregating massive amounts of film And digital data in the same way where You can start being more predictive About somebody's health, you can be more Descriptive about prescribing. Then I Was just wondering with thermography, Might be the same thing as when you have These images and they start meaning X, And Z, then AI starts learning, Then you just have to have, again, And you always have to take the right Regulatory pathway to get there, But that to me seems like another really Interesting pathway for thermography where It could be, you know, you can remove, At least remove some noise from the world, Right, on what you're talking about.

We're very excited about the future. Yeah. We, again, have to go carefully, And because what we have found Is that when we use are medical Doctors as interpreting physicians, That human element right now cannot be Duplicated. Right. I think though, Perhaps that in the future that the Assistance of AI and like you said, It starts to learn and it learns So much quicker than we do, Especially if you were to look over Even just the thousands of imaging Interpretation reports that the company I'm affiliated with Physicians Insight Does every year it probably could take All those in about what 10 seconds?

22:57 I mean, it's so fast It's incredible Right how fast it is and just look At all these patterns say we see a Pattern in the patterns We want we Want to investigate that obviously, But we have to go very slowly and very Carefully But I think it'll be there Someday as soon as the FDA clears us To kind of more investigate that we're Certainly not gonna shy away from it. That'd be exciting So, you know, Let's talk about another huge opportunity, I think, in with thermography, And it's debilitating America in so Many ways with non-healing ulcers, With bed sores, with all sorts of things.

And we're talking about wound care, You know, which I think runs Medicare probably close to $75 Billion a year in health care costs. Let's talk about that and how Thermography can, you know, lend a Hand in that particular problem area. You know, where we learned a lot About this too was when a research Institution contacted us and said, We think that thermography would be Amazing to monitor a wound care Or sepsis happening in real time. And we agreed with them. Certainly, The reason why it's not part of the Standard in wound care isn't the fact That the technology can't do it. It's The awareness and the integration of it.

Wound care teams are dealing with Huge caseloads and tight timelines. We are trying to poke into that a little Bit and go, hey, you guys, this is great. And we already even went as far as To try to investigate and we have Tools that we can add to our already Incredible software that will monitor, You know, with special kinds of Like temperature differentials that Can be captured immediately and just Over time watched at how a wound is Either healing or getting worse. So, there's so much there, so much there.

I just think most clinicians Simply don't know how easily This fits in their workflow. Thermography can certainly document Thermal variation around a wound. That's easy. Right. So, it's just About not so much its clinical value, But its visibility to them and Then just training them. You know, The technology is ready, the workflow Is ready, what's missing is awareness. We say that a lot. That's amazing. Let's talk about your business model. Who are your typical customers? Who do you sell to? You know, how do you get it there?

26:00 How do you service? How do you educate? All that kind of great stuff. Sure. Sure. So we have a website, Med-Hot.com. And when people are looking for Medical thermography, Let's just take, For instance, that integrative clinic. And they call us all the time, Every day. And they're saying, you know, We think we want to bring this in. Okay, let's talk about your vision. Let's talk about what you want to use It for. Oftentimes they don't even Realize what they can use it for in Their clinic. You know, some of them say, We just want to do it for breasts.

Oh, hang on a second. Let's talk About guts. Let's talk about thyroid. Let's talk about, you know, And not necessarily we're diagnosing The thyroid, but we can image that Area and give you key information For your own diagnostic process. You oh my goodness, I had no idea. So then they decide to buy the camera System. Our camera system is turnkey. So they can open up the box And start imaging right away. But there's one little step they Need first, and that's training. So I personally oversee the training.

Have a training team, but I personally Oversee all the training. I'm involved In every single training that happens. It's three days of just learning how to Use the software and take a great image. Cause really that's all they need to Know in the beginning. What we do is we Also teach them more about thermography. We weave it in to the training and we Have special like online self-study Classes where they can learn more too. But our three-day training is Pretty centered on, you know, How do you take that great image? Why?

Because we need comparison over time. You Have to take the same image every time. So we got to teach them how to do that. We do. They come out of our three-day Training knowing, okay. We also teach Them how to take a great history. So everything is there for them. Then the way we deliver it, We send it via UPS. We use FLIR cameras. FLIR is the best, unquestionably the best Camera out there. It is for medical use. I heard somebody the other day say, FLIR cameras are just for industrial use.

No, they are certainly not. We have the finest FLIR A700s and A500 Specific science streaming cameras that We integrate for medical use, beautiful, High quality, high resolution images that Can image to a width of a human hair, Which means we can see some incredible Pattern on the body and measure it. So it's not just done with the eyes, The measuring of these patterns is Done with math. is very precise, Very sensitive, but not specific, Like you've said. So then we measure This pattern and then we send them a Report on our measurements and then They decide from there the kind of Tests they wanna go on from there.

29:03 But again, we get these cameras from FLIR and we integrate them into a Medical system with the stand and The computer and the software in There and everything they need in Their computers to run the business. And then the training helps them Not only learn how to image but also The workflows they need in order To efficiently integrate this into Their business. And they're rolling. Do we have extra education? Absolutely.

And we also teach their doctors how To use medical thermography within The practice to add that element of Visual monitoring. That's great. So Apple Light's experience opening the Box, great training, great service, Just put a bow on it. thank you for that. Have training programs, you're, You know, bringing that additional Value over time, so. Yes, yes. We have a non-profit organization Called the IAMT, iamtonline.org, And that's where it has like a Public-facing side where you can learn More about medical thermography as Well as our website Med-Hot.com, But it also has a members-only portal Where our thermographers can log in and Watch videos and interviews like, oh, How do you how do you integrate this Into dentistry? Oh, we interviewed a Dentist and another dentist and you Can watch those interviews and you Can learn more about how to talk to The dentists in your area and offer Them your thermography services.

There's also technical stuff, Marketing stuff, so much in there. And so we keep the information flowing To them through the IAMT, as well as Med-Hot is always there to support Them with technical support as well. And we have people come to us from all Around the thermography community and They say, know, I want Med-Hot now I'm Ready for Med-Hot Let's let's level up. Okay. So what's next for you? What's next for for Med-Hot? You know in Its next sort of Generational phase of Moving forward and where do you go now?

You know, it's funny because dr Carol Said to me the other day She said nobody In the world in the community of medical Thermography is really challenging us So, We have to challenge ourselves. Let's challenge ourselves. So we are polishing up and introducing A whole new software that really on The technical side really helps our Thermographers take the best images Because comparison over time is prime. So that's one thing we're doing. The other thing we're doing is we're Getting into places like the NFL, Wound care, like we were talking about Earlier, research. We wanna be there, We wanna be there helping them.

32:00 Oftentimes research doesn't have the Budget or they come to us asking us if we Have used cameras and things like that. Our thermographers like to buy New cameras from time to time. They want that brand new FLIR A700. So we'll have used cameras that we can Sell or possibly even donate to help them Enhance what they're doing in their Research. And also, like you said, Treading carefully and cautiously, but Nevertheless treading into that AI area. See how we can get more data more Quickly out there in terms of what Thermography can help doctors do.

One more question before we go. I think, first of all, Thank you so much for being here. I feel so enlightened and I feel like There are other avenues around whether It's wound care or breast health, That I want our viewers and listeners to Understand that there are other options, That you don't have to go get a $1,500 CT for breast cancer screening. There are other elements and other Options that you can do, even for Body screening components as well. So, I think those are really nice things To be able to say there are options if You want to look at, maybe not screening, You know, changes in your, you know, Your physiological aspect over time.

So, I'll- We can't say screening. Yeah, I know. I blew it again. My bad. We can say study. And study's great, Isn't it? Like you're studying Something and you're watching it. Mean, study's a good word. See, You're teaching me, You're teaching me. Maybe one day can come work for you and Maybe help yourselves with these things.

So one more question for you, And this is really something that I Ask all my guests, and it's the One standard question they all get. So you've had such a long journey And successful career, whether it's In wellness or in thermography, What would current day Kristin go back And offer as one piece of advice to 22-Year-old Kristin? when you were Starting on that professional pathway, And it can be personal advice, it can be Professional advice, it can be any advice, But the only caveat of the rule is you Only can offer one piece of advice.

34:42 What would that one piece of advice be, Based upon what you've learned, to go back And say, I wish I would have known this? Probably go to med school. Yeah, okay. I really wish, because I know, because I Was raised in a holistic family, I know That I would have taken my education To that integrative area very quickly. I would have been in that club. I know I would have found my tribe Because my mom had already found A lot of that tribe. We would get Together with integrative doctors.

They weren't even called that back then. And I really wish that I would have Continued on and gone to med school after Biology. So I stopped there, got married, Had my three babies, but wait, I have All these great babies in my life now. They're in their 30s and now I have Grand babies. But yeah, I really wish I would have gone on to get my MD. That's what I'd say, hey, get going, You're still young. That's awesome. So moving forward, from an audience Perspective, functional medicine, Regenerative medicine, integrative Medicine, all those types of things, How would people get in touch With you or the company if they Were interested in learning more.

So, first of all, you can go to our Website, Med-Hot.com, and we have a Contact form that you can fill out. We'll get it, and we will call you, Or we'll email you, whatever you want. You can put your preference there. Also, my social media team has given me, For Instagram, we are Med-Hot Infrared, All one word, Med-Hot Infrared. For Facebook, we are also Med-Hot Infrared and our YouTube channel, Which has some great stuff on it. It does, by the way. Is what? No, it does.

I've been on your YouTube channel. It's phenomenal. Med-Hot Infrared Imaging is the YouTube channel. You can get in touch with us. Our phone number is right there on Med-Hot.Com and that goes to my director of Sales Scott who's amazing. His fiance Has been a thermographer for many years. She's one of our Med-Hot thermographers And he's now my director of sales. He can get you started but I want to Talk to you personally as well and he Knows that every person who inquires And who is interested will, you know, I'll get on the phone with them too and Talk about their vision and help them Understand the big scope of thermography And how to shop for a thermography System, the right questions to ask.

37:43 People just think, how much is it? Oh, I'll get the cheapest one. No, don't do that. Talk to us first. Let us tell you what kind of criteria We'll make for the best thermography Program. So we'd love to hear from you. And thank you so much for allowing me To put all that information out there, Terry. Appreciate that. Well, We'll not only do that, but when we Get the post out and the links out, We'll get coordinated and we'll make Sure that we get it to the right people In the right place at the right time.

So, Kristin Burton, owner, CEO, Med-Hot, great job. Thank you for Being here today. Thank you, Terry.