Why Medical Equipment Buyers Need More Than a Demo

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0:00 One day I received a call. They asked me for a quote for 10 of my premium systems. I thought my chances of getting the deal were pretty low, since I'd never had the opportunity to do a demonstration, and about 30 days later I received a seven-figure purchase order that I wasn't expecting. What would be that one piece of advice you would give yourself that would have saved you so many headaches over the course of your future? CMIA is something I do for fun. I enjoy doing it. I don't get paid to do it. Having been a supplier selling or taking money from hospitals throughout my career, I feel this is my way of giving back to the healthcare world. Hello.

I am Terry Coutsolioutsos, founder of RevRx AI. We eliminate friction and generate revenue for medical technology and consumer health practices. Welcome to Zero Friction. This is Terry Coutsolioutsos. Today we have a great guest, his name is Jason Velick. Jason is currently the president of CMIA, which is the California Medical Instrumentation Association. Jason has had a distinguished career in the field of imaging, working for major companies such as Philips, Siemens, and GE Healthcare. She runs an organization in California that helps make decisions in the biomedical field. He also works for a company called Cure. Jason, I'd love to have you on the show today. Let's talk about health and biomedical images. Let's talk about the things that aren't working and what we can do to eliminate friction from the system. Welcome to the program.

Thank you. Let's do it. Jason, tell us a little about your career path. I would like to know a little about your personal background and what motivated you to join CMIA. Knowing that you run such a prominent organization, I get the impression that much of the work they do there is fundamentally based on volunteering. Tell me about that and what you do there. Yes. Well, I graduated in molecular biology and I came from a family of healthcare professionals. My father was a doctor, my aunt was a nurse, my grandmother was a nurse, and my sister worked in public health. I wanted to dedicate myself to a field that would allow me to take advantage of what I learned with my degree. One of the first jobs I got was in sales. I thought, " Well, sales." I started with genetic and molecular biology research teams, then I moved into the pharmaceutical industry, and then I had the opportunity to work for GE selling ultrasound equipment. I had no idea what that was. It was

2:46 27 years ago. Does GE manufacture medical equipment? Are they like refrigerators? How do you know you can make money with that? But, as you mentioned, I've worked for all the major imaging companies: GE, Philips, Siemens, and Samsung. I have worked in various roles, from sales to sales management, global sales development, finance, and service. When I moved from Minnesota to California, I needed a job and joined a company that repaired ultrasound equipment called Conquest Imaging. Okay. The president of that company told me to get involved in an organization called CMIA, the California Medical Instrumentation Association.

I thought, "Why should I do that?" And he said, "It would be good for business." "Okay, that's a good reason." So I got involved and was elected treasurer of the capital region, which is Sacramento. And I really enjoyed doing it. It was a lot of fun to meet these biomedical equipment technicians, BMET, clinical engineers, biomedicine technicians, whatever you want to call them. They are the people who repair medical equipment when it breaks down in the hospital. From intravenous infusion pumps to CT scans, MRIs, nuclear medicine, ultrasounds, and everything in between. I stayed in CMIA even when it didn't benefit my business, just because I was new to California. I met some people and it was fun. So, for about 10 years, that did nothing for my business. I called private offices, but I still attended meetings and supported their events because it was fun and I met many people from all over the state involved in healthcare. That's how I got involved. I held several positions within the organization. I was

Vice president and president of the Los Angeles section. I was president of the San Diego section. And then, earlier this year, I was elected chairman of the state board. The organization has existed for 52 years. We have around a thousand active members throughout the state of California in nine sections across the state. Each section has its own president, vice president, secretary, treasurer, and two board members. And they meet every two months. So nine sections, six meetings a year, that's 54 meetings a year. The main objective is to share education. All meetings are accredited with continuing education credits.

5:46 We make a lot of contacts and have a good time. Last night we ate tacos and drank tequila in Pasadena with the Los Angeles section at Pasadena's oldest Mexican restaurant and talked about real-time location services, medical device tracking, and RTLS. It's great, so I'm sure it's a great opportunity to network and learn. I'm sure there's also plenty of support from suppliers that lets you know about the latest developments and keeps you up to date with what's happening in the market. So it's probably a good way to go for many different categories. Yes, we have representation not only from biomedical equipment technicians, but also from original equipment manufacturers and independent service organizations, and all of them have been sponsors at one time or another. Right now, I think we have about 40 active sponsors, the organization that helps us with the costs.

So each chapter has a kind of local mission, and then you have a broader mission with the state organization as well. Okay. That's how it is. And when looking at the biomedical team, what kind of frictions do they have to face when performing their duties within the healthcare sector? Because, you know, they're like the infrastructure support. Just like when things aren't going well, I'm sure they're the gateway when new technology arrives in the system. So they have to check it when it arrives and is installed, and then they're there to supervise and maintain it in some situations, I'm sure, right? So, what are the most important things a biomedical engineer deals with in a hospital?

The most important thing I would say is that they do not generate income. And that's why, anything that doesn't generate income in the healthcare system, they want to minimize the cost. And I think one of the most common themes I hear is that they are being asked to do more with fewer resources, which is common in the healthcare sector. The other big challenge I see is that there aren't enough trained people to service the medical teams. That's why there's a labor shortage. That has become a major problem across the country. It is not limited to just California. And the third problem is that there are not enough teachers to teach these types of programs in schools. So that opened the door for us to do a lot of work at the state level to try to change that. You know, there's talk that there aren't enough workers. And I was thinking, you know, a few years ago, at Atrium Health in North Carolina, and they were talking about the same challenge

8:50 Around the biomedical space and supporting the hospital system, and trying to find ways to create alternative internships and learning pathways, you know, going straight from high school into a biomedical engineering internship program. How does that look in today's market? Well, that's actually one of my main initiatives right now: establishing internships across the state. We are working with an organization called American Health Care Apprenticeships and then with the College of Biomedical Equipment Technology. I am also working with the California Department of Internship Standards. We just signed a first memorandum of understanding with the Pleasanton Unified School District to be able to work on an internship program within that school district.

We are also in discussions with a consortium of community colleges in Orange County that represents 10 community colleges to establish a similar pathway for apprenticeships, engaging people in that field right after they finish school. What is that road like? Let's say you're 18 years old, you just graduated from high school, you know, you chose not to go to college and you're going to take a more technical route and you're going to enter a hospital apprenticeship program that focuses on biomedical engineering. Can you explain to me what that route is like?

Yes, there are a couple of different ways. One is certification. Certification is not a degree program. It can usually be obtained in a couple of months, two or three months. OK. They usually gain basic experience in electronics so they can do the basics, electrical safety testing, and that's how many people get into this field. They graduate from high school, look for a job, and want something that is easy, with little resistance, and does n't have a large associated cost. Many of these programs are covered by federal grants.

Mhm. Well, that's one way. The other route is the associate degree itself, which is, you know, a two-year degree in which they learn a little more in depth about the management of health technology and the full scope of services provided to the technical team of equipment within a hospital. That requires a larger investment. Clear. It's a two-year period before you start earning any money. Unless you do a paid apprenticeship while you're in the program. Clear. So you could go ahead, get certified, and then work even part-time and also do some kind of associate degree program. Are there any healthcare systems that offer paid apprenticeship programs? Do they pay for school once you're enrolled? Do they take any other interesting steps that might make someone say, "This really makes sense for me"?

12:05 Yes. Many of the larger health systems are conducting some kind of apprenticeship program, such as Kaiser, which has a more formal apprenticeship program. In many places, they are trade union organizations, so there are some issues surrounding that. But yes, we see many different ways for people to get into the countryside. In addition, the College of Biomedical Equipment Technology has a fully online program that trains people to be able to go out into the field. The labor shortage affects more than just suppliers, it also affects hospitals. OEMs also deal with this problem. When I sell medical equipment, it goes to the hospital; if there is any problem, a field engineer is sent. And one of the ways they 're looking at our company is how quickly they can get it up and running again so it can start generating revenue again.

Correct. If you send someone who doesn't know what they 're doing, or if you don't have the necessary staff to send, it's much more likely that it will take longer before they can get that equipment up and running. Independent service organizations are also dealing with shortages. Therefore, it affects the entire industry as a whole on all three sides. Suppliers, manufacturers, and service providers. You know, I know that in the previous companies I worked for in the past, I know that there is this aging population of technical service providers and technical service engineers, where there is a real gap. There is a large outflow happening right now that this channel didn't have to cover. Therefore, yes, it puts more pressure on the system. I suppose the other side of the coin would be that, with fewer people in the market to do the work, does AI play a role in the biomedical field? And are there ways to leverage AI to achieve greater

Efficiency, a more proactive, planned service that, for example, doesn't react to things that are broken, but can predict when they are going to fail before they do? And then allow it to adopt a more service-oriented maintenance program instead of a reactive repair and fix program. Yes of course. AI is having a tremendous impact on the management of healthcare technology today. The biggest impact we're seeing is the one you mentioned, which is predictive analytics, with which they can predict when a medical team is most likely to fail, and then they can create team planning strategies around that. Well, I think that's the first point where we see AI routinely affecting the management of health technology, but it's going to expand. We see that it affects many different areas. Well, we 're not seeing it yet in terms of robotics, where robots are going to come and fix your medical equipment.

15:20 Yes. It is still a very tactile modality and requires you to deal and interact not only with patients at times, but also with the healthcare providers themselves. Therefore, it requires a certain level of customer service, the ability to communicate, and the ability to document things very, very well. Many of those things are...Well, there are areas where AI could have an impact over time. But right now, the biggest impact we're seeing is predictive analytics. What about remote facilitation, remote maintenance? I guess, you know, that way people don't have to get on trucks and drive, and that saves time too, right? That creates efficiency if there are certain things that can be classified remotely with camera systems, virtual systems, by connecting to systems. I'm sure all of that plays a role in trying to bring some efficiency to the model.

Yes, you know, everyone likes to pay for travel time. That's why it would be great if we could eliminate or reduce it. Therefore, I believe it is something that is finally on the horizon. Right now, when it comes to remote diagnostics, they can troubleshoot a piece of equipment remotely and then proactively order any replacement parts that are needed. Correct. Go there and solve the problem once and for all instead of going, diagnosing, asking, and then coming back. Again and again. Again and again. I believe that as technology evolves, we will see more remote services. There are some interesting service companies that have developed remote training platforms. In this way, they can teach people how to repair medical equipment remotely.

And I think that's one of the things I remember from when we both worked at Siemens, as those were some of the paths our service organization was taking in trying, in some way, to achieve greater operational efficiency. And at the end of the day, I understand that everyone likes to bill for things, but we also have to think about our customers and we have to think about uptime and downtime and what is really best. And there are certain situations where, if you can do it remotely or if you can do it proactively, then it should be done that way instead of creating emergencies for everyone. And, you know, there are days when things come to a standstill when something breaks down in a hospital and things like large imaging systems crash. I mean, things just stop happening. And then there is another game plan that needs to be implemented within the system. We'll do what we 're talking about, not being somewhere, right? I think you and I, when we had our original conversation, you were able to sell a

18:19 Big picture deal in your career and, you know, you didn't even do a demo. Tell me about the kind of trust you had to build to be able to do that without having to go through the whole circus and charade of demonstrations and multiple demonstrations when you signed that contract. Yes, that was a turning point in my career, where I really realized how much my reputation and what I do on a daily basis impact the work I do. One day I received a call from an accountant asking me for a quote for 10 of my premium systems. And it was in a market where we did n't have the majority of the market.

In fact, we didn't have a majority by any means. Our competitor has about 80% of that market. So, I felt that my chances of closing the deal were probably pretty low, since I never had the opportunity to do a demonstration. I never interacted with the department. I thought this call from Biomed was actually just a reference for my budget so they could get a better price from my competitor. Okay. So I told them that too. I told them, "I think you're just testing me." And they said to me, "Well, can you give me the estimate?" I told them, "Yes, I can provide you with the estimate." And about 30 days later, I received a seven-figure purchase order that I wasn't expecting. And in fact, it happened twice that year. What surprised me was that when it happened, I thought, "Wow, I've been lucky." I didn't question it too much. But a couple of years later, I spoke again with the people who had called me and who

Had changed organizations. And I asked them, "Hey, how did it all go? The truth is, I wasn't the favorite provider in that situation." And they said, "Jason, we wanted to standardize, and we had experience with your manufacturer in the past in other departments. But frankly, we saw your involvement with this organization, the CMIA, and we knew that if there were any problems after the sale, you'd be there to help us. And frankly, Jason, we're big fans of yours." And when they said that, it shocked me so much that it caught me completely off guard, since I didn't know those people. I didn't know their names. They called me out of nowhere. But they had been following me. They had seen the posts I make on LinkedIn or, you know, through word of mouth, talking to other people. They had heard about my reputation and trusted me. You know, that's a great story in several ways. I think that, first of all, having that perspective of confidence is always a good thing. But

21:28 The other side of the coin is that, you know, you helped build your authority on your trust in LinkedIn, which is a digital channel. And in our current market, most of our customers have made their purchases without the salesperson for 80% of their journey. Therefore, they tend to adopt an asynchronous approach when buying things. And by the time the salesperson is actually in front of them, most of the time they have already gone through their usual activities about what they need to consult or acquire in order to make a sound decision, a sudden decision, an important decision; In other words, an important decision for anyone. And the fact that you've been using LinkedIn effectively for a long time, you know, shows that all this stuff out there, if you're watching or listening to the podcast, is that you shouldn't overlook what your LinkedIn profile can do for you. Don't overlook what your LinkedIn profile can generate from a networking perspective. Don't overlook the fact that when people are in a

Market and see your card, while checking the equipment, they are very likely to also look for you again to verify who you are and what you do. Therefore, they not only have to trust the company, but also the person from whom they buy the product. And you really brought things full circle for me, something I didn't quite grasp at the beginning of our conversation about this a couple of weeks ago, but it was something I really wanted to mention today because trust is such an important thing in today's market. Whether you're selling capital, whether you're selling razor blades, you know, a razor blade model in a health system or disposable products. You know, building authority and building trust are two very, very important things to do. And you can do both very well with LinkedIn, up to a point.

But then, you know, the way you handle the conversation authentically when you're there, and you say, "Hey guys, you're just, you know, I know I'm like the player with the lowest market share here." They have an 80% player here, and we 've all dealt with acquisitions and biomedicine in the past anyway, and we know they bring in a low-priced player to somehow pull everyone down to the lower end, right? "And well, but they bought into you because they trusted you. And that 's a really cool thing. That's why I think our audience should never lose sight of the fact that, you know, that part of LinkedIn is a big part of who you are in the marketplace. And, you know, keep it up to date, have a professional, smiling face, look good professional. And, well, post every now and then, okay? Like, release something every now and then. It's a decent thing to do. Absolutely. I, you know, have been working in the healthcare sector for a long time.

24:09 Yes. And when I started in healthcare, working in the pharmaceutical industry, it was before the Sunshine Act, and, well, we could have dinner parties with complete freedom. We could do sporting events, play golf, and do all sorts of things, okay? You know. Absolutely. And that's changed a lot because of the Sunshine Act; we can't do many of those kinds of events anymore, and they're really important for building trust. You know, sharing bread with someone is a great way to get to know them, take them out of their element, and understand a little bit more about what motivates them." And when you eliminate that, then you're left with a lot of digital ways to find people.

When I talk to people, the first thing they do when they start working with a new vendor is Google who they're working with. They Google the technology, and what comes up is really important. Because that's the first thing they're going to see; that's what will form their impression of that individual, or that product, or that service. That's why I think it's extremely important today, more than ever, to make sure you have a strong online presence. And I see that, especially in medical technology, that's not the case. A lot of medtech founders go on their LinkedIn, and they have n't posted anything in eight months. What they have there is very limited. They might not even have a picture of themselves. So when a buyer is doing their research and goes to that LinkedIn page, and there's nothing there, a lot of questions remain. Whereas other medtech founders and people who are in the business of selling medical equipment, when you go to their page and they tell you a coherent story and

Explain how they approach doing business, it really You manage to develop a digital relationship with someone, which is very difficult to achieve. This digital relationship, this trust, never comes quickly. It's something that's built over time. And it's not something you can achieve overnight. Sometimes it takes more than a year to achieve. It's not a quick equation. But I've found that if you're consistent and have a really strong story to tell, if your online presence reflects that, it makes it much easier for buyers to understand, ahem, your motivation for doing what you do and helps them make decisions when it comes to buying a new tech product.

27:11 Well, again, we come back to this whole issue of digital trust. I think it's a wonderful thing we have in front of us today, and on the other hand, buyers also prefer the digital-first approach in many ways. So, we, as providers and services in the healthcare sector, have to, as I've always said, navigate this really tough market today, and we have to figure out where our customers want us to be, when they want us to be there, and how they want us to be there. So, our job is to be where They want us to be there. And if they want us to be there digitally, then we have to be there digitally. If they want us to be there in person, then we have to be there in person. If they want us to be in a Zoom meeting, then we do Zoom. So, you know, it's a difficult place to be in the current market because preferences are so broad and diverse. How do you deal with that in

The current market with your current job at Cure? How do you adapt to this guy wanting it this way, this woman wanting it this way, and this system wanting it this way? How do you get yourself and your team focused and oriented to do things differently, always keeping your customer in mind? I think COVID really forced the situation. Because during COVID, everything was virtual. The interesting thing is that when the COVID restrictions were lifted, one of the first things my clients asked for was, "Come back here." We want to see you in person."

Well, I would say it's a mix now. Well, it was great when we were doing COVID, I could do three demonstrations in one day. Clear. You know, that's really impossible when you're sending medical equipment, being able to do that and the distances you might have to travel. Well, for me, with my current position, I cover a large geographical area. Therefore, it is sometimes difficult to travel from one place to another to be there in person. Therefore, I believe that online meetings definitely serve a very good purpose in the current environment. But, in my world, they haven't replaced in-person meetings. They've simply made it easier to meet with people when in-person meetings aren't feasible. They are not viable. They are not convenient.

Well, great. Okay, what other things do you have? You know, you have confidence, you have a purpose, you have a bigger mission. Tell me a little bit about your long- term game and CMIA, and what's more, let's end the conversation by closing it where we started. What is your goal for the CMIA organization today and what do you think it will contribute to the healthcare community in the future? Well, CMIA is something I do for fun. I enjoy doing it. I don't get paid to do it. It's a voluntary position. So you could say I'm passionate about it. Having been a supplier or having taken money from hospitals throughout my career, I feel this is my way of giving back to the healthcare world. And for me, my goal and our goal for CMIA in the next 2 years is really to solve this labor shortage, to bridge this gap and be able to create new jobs, to get people interested in the field of healthcare technology management. And that's what motivates me, Terry, to be able to

30:51 Solve a problem that other people have n't been able to solve for a long time. And I believe that through collaboration, by working with organizations that have a similar shared vision, and by working with people who are passionate about what they do, we will be able to achieve it. Me too. And it's really promising, and the purpose and mission, as you 've concluded, is to help fill that service gap and put the right people in the right place from a healthcare management technology perspective. One more question for you. And, I tend to ask this of all my guests, but if the current Jason could go back to being Jason when he gets out of school and you could give me one piece of advice, just one piece of advice, it could be personal, it could be professional, it could be financial, it could be anything, but just one piece of advice. What advice would you get knowing what you know now compared to what you

Knew then? What advice would you give yourself that, in the future, would have saved you a lot of headaches? Terry, one. Just one. Okay, I'll give you two if you want, but like, okay. Thank you. The first thing is simply to breathe and everything will be alright. Okay. I feel that many times, when we find ourselves in tense situations, we forget to take care of ourselves first, and breathing is fundamental to that. When I have a call with a manager and he's reviewing my sales force forecast and asking me difficult questions, I notice my breathing and many times it's short or I hold it. I just need to relax, take a deep breath, and know that everything will be alright. And secondly, as far as I'm concerned, I would have gotten involved in these health technology management partnerships when I started my career.

I think it would have made things much easier. But you live and learn, and things happen for a reason. The power of networking is fundamental. And these types of organizations are an excellent way to network, meet people, find work when you need it, and find people to hire when you need to hire people. And simply, to have a good time enjoying being with other people who have a similar mission in their daily lives. Yes, and as you said before, also find a way to give back. And I think that was a very revealing story about who you are as Jason Velick.

33:36 So, Jason Velick, thank you very much for being here today. What a great program, and we wish you, Cure, and the CMIA the best of luck in the future. Good luck trying to fill those jobs and train those people because that's a big undertaking. Thanks, Terry. I appreciate it and I appreciate your time. So, let's connect. Let's find out where your income is stagnating. Book a call on revrxai.com and build your revenue engine.